Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Marie Bryant's avatar

The aspect of sensing the passage of time that has intrigued me for a while now has to do with age. I'm 74. I was once 4, some 70 years ago. A day felt much longer when I was 4. A day lasted a very long time. A year seemed to go on forever. These days, of course an hour can wiz by or seem slow, but overall the days and weeks seem to go by so much faster than even five years ago. Is it September already? Is it Monday again? Didn't we just have Monday like three days ago? My theory on this has been that at age 4 a year represents a quarter of my entire existence. Measured against my entire life, one year is a big chunk of it. At age 74 a year is a very small fraction of the whole of my existence. But I don't know if this is a viable explanation for the sense of years speeding by faster. I've yet to read anything that backs this up.

Joseph McCard's avatar

I would reinterpret the causal direction. I treats physical time as part of the framework through which physical consciousness organizes experience, rather than as an independently existing stream that consciousness simply travels through. From that perspective, the article’s finding that metabolism, arousal, temperature, bodily rhythms, and mitochondrial function correlate with subjective time would be unsurprising. I do resist the conclusion that the body creates the underlying experience of time.

Time is not perceived independently of the perceiver. You then assume, however, that the chemical mechanisms you observe produce the variations in time. They are instead the physical counterparts of alterations in consciousness.

The most compatible sentence in the piece is:

“The speed of your inner clock is not a fixed personal trait. It is a state.”

I agree with the first part. I describe psychological time as elastic, with ordinary clock time representing only one specialized way consciousness organizes events.

Your fly example is interesting from my perspective. The scientific account says different nervous systems have different temporal resolution because they process sensory information at different rates. Yes, and that is the physical manifestation of something deeper.

A fly, tortoise, human, tree, and cell would not necessarily inhabit precisely the same experiential organization of time merely because an external observer's clock assigns them all the same second.

So science says approximately:

metabolism → neural processing → temporal experience

I say something:

organization of consciousness ↔ biological organization ↔ experienced time

The double arrows matter. I don't treat consciousness as a passive product of biological machinery.

The mitochondria finding is particularly interest:

People with and without mitochondrial disease didn't necessarily differ in their overt timing performance, yet the physiological relationships underneath that performance differed.

That actually fits unusually well with my way of thinking.

You cannot infer the organization of consciousness simply by observing a physical endpoint. Similar physical experiences can arise through different underlying organizations, because consciousness and the body form an integrated system rather than a simple mechanical chain.

The experience looked the same, but the organism was constructing that experience through different physical pathways.

The article remains firmly within psychophysiology. It is talking about subjective duration judgments: whether ten seconds feels longer or shorter, how rapidly sensory events can be discriminated, and how bodily energetic states correlate with those judgments.

My claims about time are much more radical.

What we ordinarily call past, present, and future are features of the physical system of perception rather than ultimate properties of reality. Ordinary waking consciousness focuses on events sequentially, producing the experience:

A → B → C → D

But consciousness itself isn't fundamentally confined to that sequence. It provides evidence that human and animal temporal perception is biologically variable. That is entirely compatible with conventional neuroscience. It does not establish my claims about simultaneous time, reincarnational selves, probable realities, or consciousness existing independently of the brain.

This is science beginning to encounter the edges of something I claimed decades earlier: the experienced character of time depends upon the organization of the experiencer.

The most interesting difference is causality

Kapri writes:

“Perhaps your clock was running within a body where energy was flowing differently.”

I invert that, or at least make it reciprocal.

In my framework, during illness, grief, intense creativity, dreams, meditation, danger, or altered states, consciousness can change its characteristic focus. The accompanying nervous-system activity, hormonal state, metabolism, and subjective time would all be physical expressions of that changed organization.

So instead of saying:

My metabolism changed, therefore time felt strange

I say:

My entire psychophysical organization changed, and both metabolism and experienced time were aspects of that change.

That is a subtle but enormous philosophical difference.

The CFF material asks, essentially: How many experiential events can an organism discriminate within one externally measured second?

I question the privileged status we're giving the external second.

From our standpoint, the fly is processing more events during our second. But from the fly's experiential standpoint, its own perceptual world is simply normal.

Whose second is the “real” second?

Physics gives us a perfectly useful operational answer: clocks establish a common measurement system. Biology then shows that equal measured intervals need not contain equal amounts of experienced differentiation.

Let us distinguish those two things very sharply.

Clock time would be part of the agreed-upon structure that allows physical creatures to coordinate their experience. Psychological time concerns the amount, density, organization, and character of experience occurring within that framework.

And that makes the fly example more philosophically interesting than merely saying “flies have faster brains.”

Imagine that during one measured second:

Human: A ——— B ——— C

Fly: A–B–C–D–E–F–G–H–I

The clock hasn't changed. What has changed is the experiential information density inside the interval.

The article suggests metabolism helps constrain that density.

Biology is showing us the physical mechanics of a much broader principle: time as experienced is inseparable from consciousness itself.

And I suspect that would be the point I'd emphasize most. The researchers are asking, “How does the energetic state of an organism alter its internal clock?” Let us push the question one level deeper:

Why assume there is an independently existing psychological clock at all? Perhaps what you call time is partly the experiential result of consciousness organizing events at a particular rate and in a particular sequence.

19 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?